Sure you get a Kinect thrown in with your Xbox One, but beyond that, if you were wondering why the Xbox One was $100 more than it’s Sony made rival the PlayStation 4, ExtremeTech has just reported on the cost associated with building each next gen console.

If you don’t want to read through how the cost of each system was derived, here are the numbers that matter. The Microsoft Xbox One, (Kinect included) costs $471 to manufacture. The Playstation 4 costs $381. So if you’re looking at that number and saying, damn, retailers don’t make much on consoles, that’s because you’re right, they don’t.  Extremetech reports, that after the retailer’s cut Microsoft is still losing money on each and every console.

Rest assured though, both companies have found ways to cut their losses significantly from the previous generation of systems. Now remember over the years both manufacturers streamlined manufacturing, traded around some parts and slimmed up their consoles. Eventually lowering the hit on their cost to produce the Xbox360 and Playstation 3. However, when they were released the Xbox360 cost $705 to produce while the Playstation 3 came in at a whopping $805.

If you remove the Kinect from the equation both systems come really close in cost to build. It’s been widely reported that Microsoft considered entering the market at $400 for the Xbox One but went with the $499 price instead. Sony had also considered including the Playstation camera and charging $500 or the PS4. Chances are that after the initial rush Microsoft may decide to release a system sans the Kinect closer to $400, while Sony is releasing a more expensive bundle this quarter with the PlayStation Vita included.

See how the numbers broke down at extremetech.